Looking for OD&D advice

scribe · Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 7:46 pm Post subject: Looking for OD&D advice

I have an unusual item I picked up in trade years ago. I never followed up on it and I saw it today and decided to scan it along with some other IFW items I am working on for the research forums. Anyhow, I wanted to put this out for opinions. Is this item part of some set that I am not aware of? Honestly, it could be curiously common as my OD&D collection is sorely limited.

It is a single page folded in half with printing that gives it an appearance of being digest sized. It is unnumbered but totals 4 pages printed all sides. I included scan of front and back. It has the appearance of being a flyer but it actually contains a dungeon by Steve Jackson of Games Workshop reprinted from GAMES & PUZZLES, No. 48, May 1976 (according to interior notation).

Front cover:

Back cover:

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bombadil · Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 7:53 pm Post subject:

Cool.

I haven't seen it before, but it's most interesting that the booklets pictured are 4th prints. Have you tried asking Steve Jackson?
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Let mirth prevail!

scribe · Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 7:59 pm Post subject:

There are two different Steve Jacksons (at least I think so. Embarassed

) I believe this one to be the UK S.J.

I don't know the contact for either one.
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bombadil · Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 8:09 pm Post subject:

Neither do I, but would guess maybe Al or red_bus might know.
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tfm · Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 8:17 pm Post subject:

It does look like promo material, kind of like FASA's Camel.
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"This is cool."

Mars · Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 12:56 am Post subject:

I have only seen this item once before and it was with an auction for a white box set in the UK. I've been trying to find a copy of the original magazine for a couple of years now too but no such luck.

I would hazard a guess and say that it was included with the white boxes sold in the UK at the time but I really don't know if that even happened. Did Games Workshop sell white boxes?

grodog · Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 12:58 am Post subject:

I haven't seen it either. Rob or EGG might know, too, if you ask them. In fact 1976 was when Rob was still working in shipping IIRC, which is how he knew about the golden insert sheets.
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grodog
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Allan Grohe
grodog@gmail.com
http://www.greyhawkonline.com/grodog/greyhawk.html

Editor and Project Manager, Black Blade Publishing
http://www.black-blade-publishing.com/

scribe · Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 1:51 am Post subject:

Thanks for the info so far.

I had a few more thoughts. It could have been included in the boxset as an adventure and use guide as suggested by Mark. It helps to know that he has seen this for sale with the boxset. Not a smoking gun but deserves to be heavily considered now. I am dubious as I think we would have seen a few more if they were in the original packaging.

I am sure it was an insert as there are no staple holes. I am guessing it was printed in the UK at Games Workshop. I think they were printing their own TSR items at the time, no? Were they printing their own rules boxsets? This could very well be a Games Workshop handout at their store, other shops, or possibly included in mail order, or handed out at gaming conventions, or all of the above as a possiblity.

What is awesome about it to me is that it includes an adventure aside from promotional factoids.

Grodog, if you have a few, could you ask for us? You are in better contact than I to be sure. Thanks.
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scribe · Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 2:08 am Post subject:

I googled The Dungeons of the Ground Goblins and pretty much found nothing. I did find a couple of Tolkien references to 'ground goblins' but I am not sure if it was exclusively Tolkien or not as it isn't really my expertise.
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bombadil · Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 1:40 pm Post subject:

Mars · Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:47 pm Post subject:

grodog · Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 6:57 pm Post subject:

I didn't save that auction, so I can't help there.

I got Steve Jackson's email, will ping him and point him to this thread.
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grodog
---
Allan Grohe
grodog@gmail.com
http://www.greyhawkonline.com/grodog/greyhawk.html

Editor and Project Manager, Black Blade Publishing
http://www.black-blade-publishing.com/

The Collector's Trove · Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:29 am Post subject:

Howdy All,

That was me who bought the set. I believe it is a UK produced OCE and the insert along with a Games Workshop catalog (Mickey Mouse colophon) were tucked inside. Sadly, I did not get the catalog but David did, as it was offered in another auction and I missed it.

The booklets in this set differ from the cover cardstock of any previous or later sets. I dated it to between 6/77 and 4/78.

Oh, and good luck on the Games and Puzzles catalog, they are mighty hard to find!

Futures Bright,

Paul

harami · Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 2:17 pm Post subject:

Nice to see that sheet again. :)

> Did Games Workshop sell white boxes?

*nods*. And brown boxes, too.

> I think they were printing their own TSR items at the time, no?

No. Not as far as I know, and I'll cheerfully go toe-to-toe with Paul to find anything to prove otherwise. Wink

There's nothing in the US or UK literature to indicate they were doing so and that would've been a "big deal", publicised like the 1st UK Basic book. GW's funds probably wouldn't have been in shape to undertake such a venture, either, even if TSR trusted them to print off only a certain number at that early stage.
Dodging the import taxes of the box sets kinda makes sense but why still import the boxes to put them in? "Best guess" is still that it's a specific (US) printing of which a large fraction ended up the UK with a few scattered elsewhere (5ths not OCEs, no?). Late 76 or, more likely perhaps, early 77 does at least partially make sense in that context given how the market was picking up over here.

Anyhow; judging by the timings relative to the O&Ws and that that sheet was (apparently) first described as an "Info/Description Sheet" then later as an "Introductory Sheet", it was most likely created specifically for Games Day II (2/12/77) with remainders being available free-of-charge through WD#1 at least.

(aside @Paul: The GW catalog which went along with that 5th print was in plain view on a separate auction - it was the WD#1 flier that was hidden. Given that the logo on the flyer is updated from the "artists impression" in O&W#25 (4/77), I'm fairly sure that particular box set was bought mid-77, /possibly/ just before June).

scribe · Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 1:30 am Post subject:

What has got me about this item is why they would put this promotional flyer inside of the rules box. Perhaps to pass along a quickie published adventure? One thing to consider is the considerable difference in size between this item and the usual booklets. It fits in the OCE box of mine, but is nearly 1/4" or 8cm wider than the booklets.

To be clear, this marks 3 different copies that have been spotted to date? Mine was acquired some 4 years ago in trade. It was no where near a boxset but did originate in the UK to my understanding. The other 2(?) were spotted with an OCE boxset? One is in the possession of Paul who states the quality of paper differs from the standard OCEs found in the US.
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harami · Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 1:56 am Post subject:

Mars · Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 5:24 pm Post subject:

Here's an auction for another white box with the sheet:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=270172835907

looks like it could be a 5th print as well.

scribe · Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 11:12 am Post subject:

There it is in another boxset. Perhaps it was an intentional insert? I wonder if Paul's findings regarding paper quality with the OD&D covers can be confirmed with that boxset.

Lastly. Sounds like it went inexpensively.
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tfm · Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 1:08 pm Post subject:

bombadil · Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 4:15 pm Post subject:

Well, had it not been for the nuked box lid, I would have hammered it. Two reasons. First, because I believe the 5th print whitey is fairly uncommon. And for some reason they're hard to come by in really good condition. Second, and obviously, because it had the insert.

It was nice to see David in there at the end. This is one worth trying to pick up. Very Happy

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Let mirth prevail!