Joined: 11 Sep 2004 Last Visit: 28 Jun 2013 Posts: 2977 Location: NYC
Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 9:50 pm Post subject: Arbela by Gygax & Dane Lyons
I saw mention of a game called Arbela a few times while transcribing information from the IFW Monthly to the Research Forums. It is described as a published for purchase Ancient Miniatures wargame and is co-authored by Gary Gygax and Dane Lyons. I am sure a few made it into circulation at the time. Whether they exist is another matter. Anyone ever seen this or do you own a copy? _________________
Joined: 12 Sep 2007 Last Visit: 12 Feb 2009 Posts: 56 Location: Berkeley, CA
Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 10:40 pm Post subject:
The Guidon boardgame Alexander was the professionally-released version of Arbela (which in turn was a WGIG/GDB game). This is directly attested by Don Lowry in Panzerfaust #66, for example, and there is quite a bit of circumstantial evidence to that effect. You may recall that Alexander was widely billed as a boardgame-miniatures hybrid - a boardgame that used many rules from miniature wargaming, including morale.
From the April '71 flier for Alexander:
Quote:
Darius had collected vast forces from all parts of his empire and now selected the plains of Gaugamela, near the city of Arbela, as the place to make his stand. The victor at Arbela would rule the known world and determine whether future civilization would be built on the Persian culture or the Greek.
Now the one that's really hard to figure out is the P.O.W. publication called "Crusader". It's advertised for sale in a lot of earlier Panzerfausts (#41, for example) as "Gary Gygax's Medieval Wargame". Presumably this was a mini-game (4-6 pages, with a 2-page map) published in the last few pages of an earlier PZF - the P.O.W. releases were introduced that way, as far as I can tell. I had always assumed this was the final version Gygax's game "Arsouf" (which is mentioned, for example, in the March-May 1969 International Wargamer as a GDB project of Gygax's). However, I've seen some other evidence, though, that "Crusader" was actually about the battle of Ascalon, yet another Crusader-state struggle.
Gygax's early bibliography is full of these semi-professional publications, and finding the causal links between his earliest drafts and the final publications can be pretty daunting. Proving that "France '40" (another GDB game mentioned in that issue of the IW) became Guidon Dunkirk is similarly daunting, given that the originals are effectively extinct. Unless anyone is holding on to issues of The Artisan, say...
Joined: 11 Sep 2004 Last Visit: 28 Jun 2013 Posts: 2977 Location: NYC
Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 2:44 pm Post subject:
Excellent research to say the minimum!
I just recently learned that WGIG meant War Games Inventor's Guild that had some affiliation with what become the IFW (International Federation of Wargamers). I am not familiar with what GDP is.
ARBELA is described as an amateur published work for sale by Lyons & Gygax in a review within the January 1969 issue of IW Monthly. The January 1969 issue of International Wargamer has an article with rules additions for the game and a separate article for Q&A on the Arbela rules. One bit at the end of the Q&A goes on to speak of Gary in 3rd person so I assume it was the editors note. It points at Avalon Hill and questions the completeness of the Arbela rules. Not sure if this was some kind of reference about game being rejected by Avalon Hill for publication? At any rate, I am missing several issues of The Spartan (first club zine name) leading up to these first issues of the the reorganized IFW. It seems like there is probably more on this game in those issues.
I wonder who is and where Dane Lyons went? Maybe he was removed from the credit since the game had changed so much and/or Dane had abandoned the project earlier. It clearly references him as being the one who designed Arbela in the january IW article for rules additions. Perhaps this would explain why Arbela is not in Gary's bibliography. _________________
Joined: 12 Sep 2007 Last Visit: 12 Feb 2009 Posts: 56 Location: Berkeley, CA
Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 2:19 am Post subject:
If you know the WGIG, then you know Dane Lyons. Grant Noble and Dane Lyons were the founders of WGIG, members of its "Council of Masters" and the publishers of The Artisan, its newsletter and clearinghouse for games. Gygax served as the "Promotional Director" of WGIG, which published his PBM scifi game War of Empires (well, technically, his revision of Tullio Prony's game).
The WGIG also published then IFW-president Scott Duncan's game Campaign, and for his part Grant Noble was a member of the USCAC and subsequently the IFW. So, the WGIG and the IFW were pretty closely linked. When the two organizations officially merged, The Spartan and The Artisan were incorporated into the IFW Monthly, and the game design activities of the WGIG became a society with the IFW called the Game Design Bureau (or GDB), which was headed up by Scott Duncan. After the merger, GDB games were distributed with the IFW's quarterly, that is, the International Wargamer.
I'm not aware of Dane Lyons' fate after the WGIG. I have seen some references suggesting that Gary Gygax was "taking over" the work on Arbela, which would seem to corroborate your suspicion that Lyons was originally the sole author.
Avalon Hill was obliquely critical of the WGIG and the idea of "amateur" games in general - they liked to pretend that there was some secret sauce applied to the boxes shipping out of Baltimore than could not be reproduced by the uninitiated. Needless to say that pretense wasn't maintained for long. But Avalon Hill remained the prestige publishing house of the industry well into the 1970s, and it wouldn't surprise me if they had seen, and rejected, some of the WGIG games. Even when AH eventually did publish Alexander, it was only after the game received some "help" from Don Greenwood.
Joined: 11 Sep 2004 Last Visit: 28 Jun 2013 Posts: 2977 Location: NYC
Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 3:19 am Post subject:
I have no materials from WGIG save for its mention in The Spartan and IWs and have not seen Dane Lyon's name elsewhere. Do you have some of The Artisans? _________________
Joined: 12 Sep 2007 Last Visit: 12 Feb 2009 Posts: 56 Location: Berkeley, CA
Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 4:15 am Post subject:
I don't have any copies of The Artisan and I'm not aware of anyone who does. However, much of the history of WGIG (and the IFW, for that matter) is directly recounted, or at worst can be extrapolated, from the various wargaming periodicals of the day. The Avalon Hill General and Strategy & Tactics are probably the most useful in this regard.
For example, from AHG V5N1 (May 1968):
Quote:
A new wargaming association has made the scene – The War Games Inventor’s Guild – members of which are all game designers in their own right, banned [sic] together to provide…"encouragement and assistance in an organization through which widely separated (geographically) inventors can communicate with each other," so states their promotional director Gary Gygax, himself a designer of some repute. The Guild, originated by Dane Lyons and Grant Noble as co-founders, publish The Artisan, a newsletter that acts as a clearing house where Guild Games can be made available to members and, hopefully, to commercial publishers.
The Guild operates a rather unique organization. You must be a designer to join, being accepted as an ‘Amateur’. Upon Guild approval of one’s creation he becomes a ‘Journeyman’ and approval of additional designs earns him the monicker of ‘Master.’
Guild Games already in existence number: Punic Wars, Saratoga, Manassas, Panzer 40, Iwo Jima, War of Empires, among the popular titles plus Campaign, another Scott Duncan creation.
The advent of an organization such as the Guild serves notice that game designers are certainly not a vanishing breed. The problem, now, is to create an expanded consumer market for acceptance of the new ideas by these ever-increasing free lancer game designers.
We welcome your solution to this problem.
Last edited by increment on Sun Oct 28, 2007 6:07 am; edited 1 time in total
Joined: 12 Nov 2005 Last Visit: 22 Mar 2020 Posts: 4574 Location: In the House of the Cosmic Frog
Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 6:12 am Post subject:
I agree. This type of experience has been a long time coming.
I did look up Arbela in the rules for Guidon's Alexander. It's mentioned in the Historical Summary section. The only credits given are for E. Gary Gygax (design), Don and Julie Lowry (graphics), and The Lake Geneva Tactical Studies Association (playtesting). _________________ "This is cool."
Joined: 12 Sep 2007 Last Visit: 12 Feb 2009 Posts: 56 Location: Berkeley, CA
Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 8:14 am Post subject:
You're welcome, of course, to include this citation from the AHG in any sections of the site. I did double check it and correct a couple of (my) typos. Let me know if you want me to pitch in at all on your IFW section.
Joined: 11 Sep 2004 Last Visit: 28 Jun 2013 Posts: 2977 Location: NYC
Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 2:06 pm Post subject:
I am working through the IFW Supplements now. I have only 5 or so to go and then its on to html. I will run the first few drafts by you and possibly ask for some editing/revisions AND some help with a historical survey. _________________
Joined: 12 Nov 2005 Last Visit: 22 Mar 2020 Posts: 4574 Location: In the House of the Cosmic Frog
Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 5:05 pm Post subject:
Quote:
Darius had collected vast forces from all parts of his empire and now selected the plains of Gaugamela, near the city of Arbela, as the place to make his stand. The victor at Arbela would rule the known world and determine whether future civilization would be built on the Persian culture or the Greek.
As a point of interest, here's the Guidon example:
"The opponents joined battle on the 20th of September, 331, about 60 miles from the town of Arbela (Erbil) from which the battle draws its name---actually the little village of Gaugamela was much closer, and many historians now refer to it by the latter name." (from Alexander page 1)
I would suggest that the second example is a rewrite of the first and by a different person. The introduction in Alexander is six paragraphs long. The sense of the destiny of the known world being decided by this one battle has been taken out in the Guidon, as has the distinction between Persian and Greek culture. It is possible that the first is an attempt to summarize the second, but they don't read as coming from the same person. Besides, Gygax' enthusiuam for the comma and other punctuation simply doesn't appear in the first.
I would say that they were crafted by different thinkers, one guided by history and one by the specifics and tactics of the battle itself. _________________ "This is cool."
Joined: 04 Mar 2010 Last Visit: 04 Mar 2010 Posts: 3 Location: Air Force Academy, Colorado Springs, CO
Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:20 am Post subject: Re: Arbela by Gygax & Dane Lyons
scribe wrote:
I saw mention of a game called Arbela a few times while transcribing information from the IFW Monthly to the Research Forums. It is described as a published for purchase Ancient Miniatures wargame and is co-authored by Gary Gygax and Dane Lyons. I am sure a few made it into circulation at the time. Whether they exist is another matter. Anyone ever seen this or do you own a copy?
Yes, I have a copy stored away somewhere bought from Gary Gygax, whom I used to do pbm Diplomacy with years ago. _________________ Dave Summer, Chemistry/chemistry evening tutor, U.S. Air Force Academy, Colorado Springs, CO
"Chance favors only the prepared mind." Pasteur (and he wasn't referring to the lottery)
Joined: 12 Nov 2005 Last Visit: 22 Mar 2020 Posts: 4574 Location: In the House of the Cosmic Frog
Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 5:46 am Post subject:
Thanks for your post. If you ever break it out, please add it to the Tome or send me the info and I'll add it. If you ever decide to sell, it would fetch a pretty penny I'm sure. _________________ "This is cool."
Joined: 04 Mar 2010 Last Visit: 04 Mar 2010 Posts: 3 Location: Air Force Academy, Colorado Springs, CO
Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 11:38 pm Post subject: Thanks; just discovered this site.
tfm wrote:
Thanks for your post. If you ever break it out, please add it to the Tome or send me the info and I'll add it. If you ever decide to sell, it would fetch a pretty penny I'm sure.
I have lots of games, including 1958 Tactics II, 1958 Gettysburg, up through the Squad Leader series (not ASL). I stopped buying new games and more or less left the hobby then. Assignments at the Air Force Academy, Germany, Germany again and then back to the Air Force Academy made life too hectic and my wife hates wargames and will not play them with me. My wife wants me to sell them; so if I find Arbela, I will be glad to let folks know it's for sale. _________________ Dave Summer, Chemistry/chemistry evening tutor, U.S. Air Force Academy, Colorado Springs, CO
"Chance favors only the prepared mind." Pasteur (and he wasn't referring to the lottery)
Joined: 11 Sep 2004 Last Visit: 28 Jun 2013 Posts: 2977 Location: NYC
Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 11:57 pm Post subject:
If you are ready to sell it, I recommend floating it on eBay with copious references to Gygax creator of Dungeons and Dragons, AD&D, founder of TSR, etc. Post notice here that you have listed on eBay in our marketplace forum. Word should get around quickly and hopefully you will get a solid 4 figure result from the auction! _________________
Joined: 11 Sep 2004 Last Visit: 28 Jun 2013 Posts: 2977 Location: NYC
Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 2:49 pm Post subject:
Another good option is Gen Con auction. Sure, it doesn't get the traffic that eBay does, but I think Frank Mentzer would be able to pitch that product properly and advise on how many he has seen and make a fair cost analysis of what it might be worth.
I'll see if I can steer him to this thread. _________________
Joined: 23 Oct 2007 Last Visit: 27 Jun 2010 Posts: 2 Location: Not the Wisconsin Northwoods
Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 4:17 pm Post subject: Arbela
scribe wrote:
I'll see if I can steer him to this thread.
I'm too bullish to be easily steered. ;>
We have seen exactly one copy of Arbela in my 25+ years with the GenCon auction. It didn't go for much, back in the late '80s, since only my wargame expert (Dan Barnett, owner of "Walt's Cards" in Baltimore MD) knew what the heck it was.
I wouldn't estimate it as high as a grand, however. Obscure wargames don't go that high, period. The original Trafalgar, frex, goes in the $700 range (+/-). As the precursor to the Guidon Alexander, I'd guess 500-ish...
Frank Mentzer
ps: If you're the same Increment, let's reestablish contact... ExTSR@aol.com
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