Original art offering

[tfm]

Some nice pieces:

http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZdragontreasure
_________________
"This is cool."

[Mars]

I am not an art collector but it seems like a number of people have been seller art lately. Just out of curiosity how do these people get such items? I am guessing that the artist is commission (or is on staff) to produce the original piece. Did they then sell the piece to TSR which used it and then sold it to an art dealer who is selling it now? Or did the artist keep the original and then sell them to dealer?

Have they just been sitting around in a warehouse for years and the dealer is now getting to them?

[scribe]

This stuff hit circulation a number of different ways depending on eras and other numerous circumstances.

The 1e era all of the artwork became the property of TSR and it went into their art department holdings. Which was nothing more than storage bins with no intention to really sell the originals. It was just their way of controlling what was theirs contractually with the artists in their employ. Many works were destroyed in various cleanouts and accidents. Some works were spirited away by the artists or others. But a bunch remained in storage and found it's way to WoTC (more on this below). Work has turned up at gaming auctions over the years. Some stuff has surfaced in collector's hands because they systematically located and contacted both exTSR artists and other exTSR employees both at conventions and via email. A lot of stuff is likely still floating around out there waiting to be discovered or passed on.

1e era Dragon covers were different. The artists typically retained the rights to the originals. Many were done by artist's who were not employed by TSR. So many of these have found their way into circulation directly via purchase from the artist.

2e era stuff was pretty much the same as 1e policy regarding employed artists. Artist's works were regarded more highly I think. Seems like stuff went into storage a bit more carefully. But TSR still retained the rights to the work.

Then Peter Adkinson comes along and purchases the rights to TSR and moves everything to Washington. I am given to understand, via 3rd hand, that WoTC intended to make an art museum in Washington. I understand they purchased a bit of work that was in the artist's hands to fortify what they received from the storage vaults during the acquisition of TSR for this endeavor. The story goes they abandoned the project and gave all the work in their storage, from all purchasing, back to the original artists at no cost. So here some of the artists were free to sell their work once again! I would love to confirm this story. As it is now, I can only assert that it is hearsay. Jim Holloway never was contacted or given anything back. But I have noticed other artists who have sold off a might amount of their late 1e and 2e items over the past few years.

It seems like a lot of newer gaming companies and 3e WoTC are letting the artists to retain their originals these days. So you will occasionally see artists putting stuff up on ebay or on their website stores if they feel inclined.
_________________

[tsrart]

Hi everyone . . . .

Actually, the old-time TSR worked a double system that varied over time.

In the old days (roughly pre-1982), TSR owned all the work that was done by its staff artists and kept everything, much of which it subsequently disposed of. Some pieces got out, passed around, given as gifts, or auctioned off at the annual charity Christmas auction - but not a lot. The main exception to this rule was Jim Roslof who, no doubt because he was art director, managed to keep most of his stuff.

Once the second generation of artists came in, the policy changed slightly. TSR had the right to take and buy any painting they wanted, but they didn't take everything - whatever they didn't buy the artists were free to do what they wanted with. Pieces that were purchased by TSR were vaulted for some eventual planned TSR museum. Generally, they only took a couple of pieces per artist - things they felt were really historically significant, like Jeff Easley's HB covers. (Jeff quoted them relatively low prices on his originals, so they bought more of his than anyone else's.)

When WotC took over, though, they ditched the planned museum and gave all of the art back to the artists, gratis, which is why Jeff suddenly had almost all of his hardback rulebook covers for sale several years ago, for example. WotC maintains NO rights to originals created by anyone for any WotC product now.

Freelancers were always a different story, though, and that included Dragon magazine covers done by staff artists. TSR never had any rights to those originals, and so they always remained in the hands of the artists.

Hope that kinda clarifies things . . . .


Pat

[Mars]

Again more out of curiosity than anything else, how does it work for art that then gets reused? When TSR or WotC commissions or uses a piece, in many cases we see then used over and over. I am guessing in the contract to use the work that they are able to reuse it as often as they like? Is there generally a time period over which they have free reign to use it or do they have to pay a type of royalty?

[tsrart]

Mars -

Again, it depends on the circumstances. Generally, any artwork created by a staff artist (i.e., one who was paid a salary by TSR) is wholly owned by TSR/WotC, and they own all the reproduction rights forever. TSR was brutal about this, which is why Keith Parkinson's original art book didn't include any TSR art other than Dragon covers - it was too much of a problem for Keith to get the rights from TSR to print his own work.

With freelancers, and now with WotC, it is generally a less restrictive deal where the company buys the rights to the image in perpetuity, with no additional royalties needed, but the artist retains the rights for a lot of uses, like calendars, prints, posters, art books, etc.

Just as a side note, for a brief period in the early days when they were just starting out, WotC offered stock in the company and royalties in lieu of much payment to the early Magic card artists, like Jesper Myfors and the like. Some of those guys actually became quite wealthy when Magic took off . . . .


Pat

[scribe]

Hi Pat and welcome! Thanks for filling in and shoring up some of my thoughts. Always good to hear stories and info from you! I would add that Horne's Strength in Numbers Dragon Cover made its way to print as a product in Dark and Hidden Ways. I am struggling to think of any other Dragon cover that made it to print in product other than that.
_________________

[grodog]

[tsrart]

Hmmm . . . . Dragon covers that became products, huh? You're right, there certainly haven't been many instances of that happening. Of course, lots of them got used very heavily for advertising (Keith's GREAT RED DRAGON, which was originally a DUNGEON cover, and Dan Horne's SAVING THE BEST FOR LAST, which adorned every Dragon subscription ad page for eons) but not so much for actual product usage.

There was a lot of Brom reusage on the Dark Sun stuff - his BLOODWEAVER Dragon cover became the DRAGON'S CROWN Dark Sun module cover, and his Dark Sun novel covers became a host of modules.

And there's been lots of other cross-usage - Keith Parkinson's CROWN OF ANCIENT GLORY started out as a choose-your-own-adventure cover, then became a module, and of course tons of Dragon covers have been converted into puzzles, posters, calendars, etc.

But for strictly Dragon cover-to-gaming product, I can't think of anything offhand other than the Horne you mentioned and the one Brom.

Pat

[beasterbrook]

I'm sure that there are several, Dragon 125 made it to Greyhawk Wars Boxed set, I'm sure that DL 15 cover was Dragon mag #115 as well, Dutchy of ten? was Dungeon Mag #2.. I was sure Clydes cover for #65 made it on to something as well... oh and of course $205 became the cover of Forgotten Realms Boxed set 2nd ed... I'm sure that there are some more though


Brette:)

[beasterbrook]

[tfm]

Fred Fields:

http://cgi.ebay.com/FRED-FIELDS-ORIGINAL-PAINTING-TSR-DROW-VS-MIND-FLAYER_W0QQitemZ190186116075QQihZ009QQcategoryZ3987QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Larry Elmore:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ORIGINAL-LARRY-ELMORE-RED-DRAGON-DragonLance-DM-Screen_W0QQitemZ190186110635QQihZ009QQcategoryZ3987QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Daniel Horne:

http://cgi.ebay.com/AD-D-DUNGEONS-AND-DRAGONS-MONSTROUS-COMP-ORIGNAL-ART_W0QQitemZ190186115474QQihZ009QQcategoryZ3987QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
_________________
"This is cool."

[scribe]

Good stuff! I highly recommend buying from Ernie as I had a great experience purchasing from him. I meant to inquire about that Elmore after it last went unsold for nearly that amount. I forgot. Given the current climate I would be surprised if it didn't sell for that or more....
_________________